TF2CSA Cup v2 Custom Maps Info

The TF2CSA Cup v2 Custom Maps deadline for signups will be tomorrow at 11:59PM and so far we have 9 teams registered with 5 competing for the Alpha Group (High/+Mid) and 4 teams on the Beta Group (Mid/Low). It would be perfect if we could get 5 teams for each group but well as we know exams might complicate some players time to play in this tournament even though it is very flexible with the deadlines set. We will adjust the group to play on 3 fixtures only in case no other team registers for the Beta group and the Alpha group is already locked. The signups will close tomorrow but the rosters will only be locked by Monday 6th of September so teams can still add/remove players from the official lineup.

Teams Registered:


Group Alpha (High/+Mid)

Group Beta (Mid/Low)

Maps of the week (September):

Round 1 2nd until 5th        cp_coldfront

Round 2 6th until 12th      cp_mainline_rc6

Round 3 13th until 19th    cp_prolane

Round 4 20th until 26th   cp_obscure_final

Finals  Sunday 3rd October (Best of 3 Maps)

At 7:00 PM Beta Group

At 8:30 PM Alpha Group

This tournament will use the TF2CSA 6v6 Rules and teams will have to play 1 game per week on the assigned map of the week. The fixtures will be arranged by the tournament admin but the specific date and time will be arranged between the teams accordingly to each round deadlines already set.

Each team will play every other team in their group once then at the end of group stage the top 2 teams of each group will meet at the finals that will be played on BO3 (Best of 3) Maps and the team that finished 1st on the table will have the privilege to decide which 3 Maps will be used on the finals from the 4 that will be used for this custom maps cup. Note: Remember each group is having their own finals.

Match rules:

30minutes Timelimit

5 Win Difference (not first to 5)

Win 3 points / Draw 1 point / Lost 0 points

Only at the finals golden cap will be used (Not at group stage)

Weapons & Unlocks Rules

Now a very important topic that I would like to discuss with the teams is the Weapons and Unlocks that will be allowed or not. As some of you know the TF2CSA use a similar rule set based on the ETF2L and if some of you are not up to date with their league rules just check the following changes:

1.3 Weapons

1.3.1 Community weapons and random drop items are banned

1.3.2 Scout Unlocks: Bonk drink allowed. Force-a-nature and Sandman banned

1.3.3 Soldier Unlocks: Equalizer allowed, Buff banner and Direct hit banned

1.3.4 Pyro Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

1.3.5 Demoman Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

1.3.6 Heavy Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

1.3.7 Engineer Unlocks: Frontier Justice and Gunslinger allowed. Wrangler is banned

1.3.8 Medic Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed.

1.3.9 Sniper Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

1.3.10 Spy Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

Random drop items are banned

It is not allowed to use unlocks that can’t be obtained with achievements; Crit-a-Cola, Dalokohs bar, Gunboats, Homewrecker, Pain train, Scotsman’s skullcutter, Tribalman’s shiv and Southern Hospitality.

  • Scout Unlocks: Bonk drink allowed. Force-a-nature and Sandman banned

It is allowed to use the Bonk drink. The use of Force-A-Nature and Sandman is not allowed.

  • Soldier Unlocks: Equalizer allowed, Buff banner and Direct hit banned

It is allowed to use the Equalizer. The use of the Buff banner and The Direct Hit is not allowed.

  • Pyro Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

It’s allowed to use the Pyro Unlocks Backburner + Flare gun + Axtinguisher.

  • Demoman Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

It’s allowed to use the Demoman Unlocks Scottish resistance + Charging targe + Eyelander.

  • Heavy Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

It’s allowed to use the Heavy unlocks Natasha, Sandvich and K.G.B.

  • Engineer Unlocks: Frontier Justice and Gunslinger allowed. Wrangler is banned

It is allowed to use Frontier Justice and Gunslinger. The use of the Wrangler is banned.

  • Medic Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

It’s allowed to use Übersaw, Blutsauger and Kritzkrieg

  • Sniper Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

It’s allowed to use the Sniper Unlocks Huntsman + Razorback + Jarate.

  • Spy Unlocks: All achievement weapons allowed

It’s allowed to use the Spy Unlocks Ambassador + Dead Ringer + Cloak and Dagger.

I’ll appreciate any feedback on this matter, positive and negative are all welcome about the weapons that have been banned and that are part of some teams strategies and might also affect some players gameplay.

0 0 vote
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
32 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
wikus
wikus
10 years ago

Only weapons which should be banned are the Sandman and Wrangler (maybe Dead Ringer too) since they are OP, restricting further than that severely limits our limited community imo.

wikus
wikus
10 years ago

Also I’d like to propose a new gameplay rule, due to whatever reasons a team needs to pause during a match (dropped player whatnot), that team needs to give at least 5 seconds warning to the opposition that the interruption will take place.

“Pausing” …. wait 5 secs *paused*

This will allow both teams to stand back a safe distance and potentially not find yourself mid-air above 2 soldiers who now have time to plan, warn teammates and counter more effectively.

Whisp
Whisp
10 years ago

That pause rule seems acceptable, so if you asked for a pause, the other team has to pause, not your team?

As for the situation about the unlocks, I understand why people would want some weapons banned, but It’s all about personal preference. EG: Continuum has a player that uses the Direct Hit, @ have a player that uses the crit-a-cola (Or used to).

I think we should make our own rules and not keep copying exactly what the overseas leagues are doing. Instead, we should be using their rules as /guidelines/. We need to keep in mind that their leagues have to accommodate hundreds of players instead of under 100. Yes there will be some tension from one clan because a player is dominating their scouts ‘because of the direct hit’, this statement is false because the player in question has to actually aim to hit the enemy scouts, it takes a lot of practise to master a particular weapon, and if you can’t counter it, you need to put in time to learn how to, that’s what competitive gaming should be all about.

In short: Let’s not try to stop using new unlocks/weapons to try keep the peace or some such rubbish, let’s use them and learn how to play with them and to counter them, new weapons can open up opportunities for new game play, new ways of doing things. Players can come up with innovative strategies on how to utilise a player who has mastered the art of a new unlock. A community grows by moving forward, not dwelling in the past.

Whisp
Whisp
10 years ago

Well, I have read and understand the views from that forum and GrimAndy’s post, but that was from a few months ago, things have changed. People can now acquire most unlocks through achievements, it takes up to 20-30 minutes to get all 3 weapons for a class if you are on a server with a couple of friends. If you are a medic and need the kritzkrieg, you can ask your clan mates to help you farm it, or craft it.

Options are there to get yourself the unlocks, as for random weapon drops, most people can craft them, they only need 2 items to do it.

I don’t see why if one player is too lazy/incompetent to do a few achievements in order to get a weapon, why no one in the entire competitive community should be disallowed from using it. And if your argument is ‘Oh our player crafted his weapon for a hat’, then you shouldn’t be complaining about the rule set and the allowance of certain weapons, you should be castrating that idiotic team mate and then hang him using his own torn ball sack. Valve put in weapons to spice up TF2, and it has, who are we to say ‘Thanks for your hard work, but we refuse to use these awesome things you put your time, money and resources in to develop for our own enjoyment.’

Goldfox
10 years ago

In my opinion we should decide on the ruleset we use by getting input from all the teams, and making decisions based on a majority opinion, rather than following overseas rules exactly, although I agree it’s a good starting point and guideline.

Also, I really feel that by having two “divisions” for this comp we are really limiting ourselves. I think that the “Beta group” teams would benefit a lot more by playing against the mid-high tier teams, as this is the best way to gain experience, learn new things and overall improve as a team, and if all the teams played each other there would still be the more even matches happening between the lower tier teams.

Teams like Fury and Cмерть have improved drastically since the last 6v6 comp and, in my opinion, by separating them from the mid-high tier teams we are hampering further improvement. There are no prizes or anything at stake, and even if there were I think our biggest focus should be improving the overall skill level of the community and helping the newer and lower tier teams improve. I really feel that by having these two separate “”divisions” we are actually going backwards.

In any case, that is my opinion and I’m only trying to give constructive feedback. If there are other reasons for this that I’m not aware of, then that’s fine, but I think it should really be considered dropping the 2 divisions idea.

X
X
Admin
10 years ago

I suggest lets asking the Captains. I am pretty sure that 90% will agree on the ruleset.

If a team is good enough to be the best then they should be good enough to adapt to any situation.

Get a steam chat going with all the captains in them and lets see what they say.

We have always used rulesets and guidelines from Overseas. We have such a small community that making our own rules is just “stupid”.

We follow overseas “demos”, “tutorials”, :”server cfg”, “addons”, “maps” but now we want to abandon there rules coz of ….?

If more than 50% of captains agree with this ruleset then it must stay, if more than 50% dont, then it must change, but then how about the captains discussing and agreeing on a ruleset.

X
X
Admin
10 years ago

How about we have a meeting on IRC tonite at like 8:30 with Captains only and all you need captains from each team to say is

Yes Boots
No DH

or Vice versa, count it up and thats that. No complaints anymore. just play

Spike
Spike
10 years ago

I think the Natasha is purely overpowered often a heavy can stand back and shoot towards the combo, if one bullet touches the medic he is severly impaired and can not use his main advantage, movement speed and agility, countless times has the Natasha caused people to rage in pickups and clannies.

As for the Gunboats i think they are a part of our community, almost every roaming soldier uses them. They help a lot with healing being able to heal demo, pocket, scouts then lastly roaming.

I think the captains should have a chat and decide.

Peng
10 years ago

I wanna play Spy!

wikus
wikus
10 years ago

You already play Spy for the Chinese government, homo!

Joint
10 years ago

First off, great thanks to the TF2CSA team for organising this league, and for all the teams that will be participating.

As for the rules regarding unlocks, I personally don’t think it’s going to make a big impact either way, whether we follow ETF2L’s rule-set or not, but I do believe I can give some very sound and unbiased reasoning as to why they should remain banned.

First off: I was planning to start practising with the FaN, to utilise it on maps like cp_gravelpit, where the push-back can be taken advantage of.
After I found out it was banned in ETF2L, I took it with a pinch of salt, and realised that there was actually good reasoning for it being banned, and accepted it and moved on.

However, it seems that others are taking it the wrong way, believing that it is simply hindering any form of diversity in competitive tf2. I’d like to address this.

First off: let’s look at an unlock like the Kritzkrieg, the most widely alternatively used unlock in TF2 with it’s default counterpart the Medigun.

The Kritzkrieg forces the entire team to adapt to its usage. Inevitably, so does it force the enemy team to do so. However, it does so at the cost of the Medigun’s invulnerability. A fair exchange, many would agree. This creates an interesting dynamic where a team can choose between either strategy at any given stage and counter, or be countered by the enemy team depending on which reacts and adapts faster.

This is why the Kritzkrieg is a perfectly balanced and widely used unlock.

Now let’s look at the FaN and Direct Hit. They both have one thing in common. They’re both personal preferences. They do not in any way change the dynamic of your team’s strategy. They merely affect you, in the way that you choose to play the class. They do however, affect another aspect of the game.

They affect your opponents. They affect the way they have to play against you, as a single player, just for using a different primary weapon.

Soldiers and Demomen have to steer clear of rocket- or sticky-jumping near a FaN-ing scout, else their entire jump is nullified. Medics have to be extra-ready to use their uber, because if they get hit just once, it’s impossible for them to dodge. Similar scenario for scouts.

As for the Direct Hit, scouts have to keep their distance, otherwise it is almost impossible to dodge one of the rockets, which will deal well over 125 damage, instantly killing them if they are not buffed by the medic. The fact that one direct hit, without the mini-crit, can kill a full-hp scout, at MEDIUM range, is already ridiculous. Coupled with the insane speed of the projectile, it means it nerfs the scout’s ability to do anything but steer clear of a Direct Hit soldier. So poor scouts, right? Wrong. Medics are reduced to ashes if they dare try to jump for a medium-range dodge, forcing them to make use of ground footwork when a Direct Hit soldier is near. What about SJ or RJ’s from fellow Demomen and Soldiers? Mid-airs are the easiest shots with the direct hit, and also deal mini-crits. On top of that, and this is a little something people forget about this game; the more damage you deal, the further your opponent is “pushed” or blasted away, similar to quake’s mechanic. This means it just takes one shot to completely screw up any soldier or demoman’s jump due to the insane amount of damage a minicrit DR shot deals. This forces soldiers and demomen to stay on the ground, and spam from a distance, where it’s relatively easy to dodge the superior projectile speed of the Direct Hit.

“QQ less and learn to adapt. You’re the best players in this country, should be easy, right?” you might say. Fair enough, but here’s what I say.

This is what your team suffers if you choose to use the FaN: One scout with a 2-shot clip size as opposed to 6.

This is what your team suffers if you choose to use the Direct Hit: one soldier with less splash from their rockets.

I don’t know about you, but if I compare the last two “disadvantages” with the amount of “adapting” the opposing team needs to do in order to counter it, I come up with this simple statement:

The entire opposing team needs to adapt to bogus circumstances for the sake of a single player’s personal preference, with little or no affect whatsoever to that said player’s team.

This is why these unlocks have been banned, and this is why I’m not complaining about the FaN being banned, because it is simply fair.

I’m actually surprised the Bonk! Energy Drink, Jarate and Dead Ringer hasn’t been banned as well; I feel the same dilemma exists with those unlocks. However, they are clearly more balanced than the FaN or Direct Hit.

Anyways,

tl;dr These unlocks have been banned with good reason, compared to these “boohoo, you just want to kill our fun.” complaints.

wikus
wikus
10 years ago

You put up a good argument Joint but I feel you are missing one of the most vital points in regards to this, skill.

The vibes I constantly get from people in this on-going debate is that anyone can pick up a FaN or DH and wreak havoc on the battleground but this could not be further from the truth.

Let’s take a FaN scout for example, sure he has the ability to reach higher platforms which otherwise would be impossible for a Scatter Scout, kill an unbuffed Heavy in two shots or has the ability to throw a jumper off their planned course, but this comes at a much higher price than just two rounds in the weapon. If that scout is not able to kill his opponent with those two rounds or push him away far enough for the FaN Scout to get safe distance between them, he will almost certainly die to an equally skilled player almost all of the time.

The exact same can be said of a DH Soldier. If that soldier is not able to shoot his opponent with almost pin-point accuracy, he doesn’t stand a chance and as a direct (harhar) result is a burden to their team.

I could go on about the Crit-A-Cola, Natascha, Gun-Boats and probably a kak load of others too but the point I’m trying to make is these players are now forced to use weapons which otherwise would not be their weapons of choice, because of their skill in using said weapon they are now handicapped as well as their team.

Are we not trying to raise the bar with regards to skill? There are always numerous counters and strategies the opponent teams can devise to overcome these “imbalances” yet people still debate the topic around the fact that both teams absolutely will use the bread & butter team setup of characters.

TL;DR
People want these weapons banned because they’re afraid of them being used against them. Those who have developed exceptional skill with these weapons are to suffer, and at what expense? So the opposition have less situational variables to account for?

X
X
Admin
10 years ago

Lets Play TF2

Peng
10 years ago

You guys should become politicians or something. Great debate. 😀
This is something I would watch on TV.

Whisp
Whisp
10 years ago

Any weapon can be annoying when used properly. People are worried about a fan shooting them up in the air and 2 shotting them, scouts have you never been pissed off when Razerfox, , Andy or Surge just round a corner and in 2 shots you’re dead? But no one bans the normal scattergun, and that has 6 rounds of ammo, any gun in the right hands with enough training is lethal.

X
X
Admin
10 years ago

i Vote all unlocks that cannot be achieved to be banned for now until a proper ruling can be made.

There is always going to be one team that will agree/ one that will disagree.

X
X
Admin
10 years ago

Yeah FAN and DH are achievable weapons.

wikus
wikus
10 years ago

Challenge accepted, I welcome any constructive input openly with both arms :>

On another note though I’d like people to consider the following;

While I agree that a team facing against a DH or FaN user will have to somewhat change the way they engage in combat, I don’t believe it is so drastic and game-changing that people can’t adapt in time.

As a Scout I would personally rather go up against a DH and FaN at the same time than two Heavies. I’m sure you can all agree that having two Heavies, no matter which weapons they use, would create a more fundamental difference in gameplay?

Anyway, happy fragging Joint, looking forward to your write-up in the future.

wikus
wikus
10 years ago

Yes you are.

“1.1.1 Normal Gamemode: 6on6, Medic and Demoman limit 1,Class limit 2”

X
X
Admin
10 years ago

Yeah you can.

The OzFortress Ruleset differs, they only allow 1 Spy/ 1 Heavy / 1 Demo / 1 Medic / Sniper/ 1 Engi

But Do we want to follow the Aussies?

Joint
10 years ago

Disregard experiment.

DH and FaN are boring as hell and making me form bad habits. Here’s the damage list for the weapons for anyone who cares.

FaN: Point-blank – 113.

Completely disables a target if you get a close-range shot, 70+ damage or so.
Very OP against medics. Weak against Soldiers. Weak against scouts with strong movement.

DH: Minimum Damage a direct hit will deal: 59, ground. Long Range: 90+ Medium-range: 111-125. Point-Blank: 135+. Mid-airs: 90 – 180+- depending on range.

A player’s jump doesn’t count as a mini-crit-able shot, thankfully. Somewhat balanced in that regard. Very OP for Mid-airs, due to it’s damage push, and projectile speed and damage output. Weak against multiple targets.

Closing comments: FaN is relatively balanced for 6v6, compared to the scattergun. DH is somewhat suspect for 6v6 play.

In any case, ban or no ban, they’re pretty useless to the team as a whole. I highly recommend not using them should they not be banned, at least for low-mid tier teams. In high tier, it’s going to pretty much be useless.

I think instead of leaving it up to the “captains” or “top teams” or players, leave it up to the low- and mid-tier teams; they’re the ones who will be affected them most by the use of these unlocks.

RaCoon
RaCoon
10 years ago

We are talking about Comp play here. Most of the people in clans have achieved a certain set of skills and they know the basics. It is not an individual gaming field like pubs. In a clan game, especially in a competition or cup, you cannot think of your personal preference or go on a killing spree. Then you must go pub.

My point is Like Joint said earlier. Even though you prefer the FaN, you are possibly putting your team at risk cause you will die. You cannot just play a certain weapon cause you feel like it. You must look at the strats of your team ( Hence the name Team Fortress). I understand that people like the DH cause it is OP and can create a lot of damage, but it has its draw backs. Again not really helping your team in the long run.

On the other side. Most of the unlock weapons are balanced and can be countered. The DH can not really be countered. As a medic you can basically run away or hope your pocket absorb your hits. You can’t strafe jump or run forward, cause if anyone with the DH shoot and even just spam in your way, you are most of the time dead. If a scout takes a shot then he is most probably dead.

At the end of the day overseas rules are adopted because it was tested by them and it works. Why do we want to re-invent the wheel on this…

BTW: These rules have been adopted for this Competition, so lets try it and if someone is still unhappy, take it further.

Whisp
Whisp
10 years ago

Racoon it was never tested overseas, it was banned almost the day it came out, it has never been allowed to be tested. And yes the DH is overpowered, but you are one of those people who still talk as if the players that use it are using an Aim bot, like they don’t miss, the only way the DH can do damage to you, is if it hits you! If it misses you, or lands close to you, it will do maybe 20 damage if any at all. I think that’s quite a big draw-back for a soldier.

wikus
wikus
10 years ago

[This is just a reiteration of my previous posts]

, please read my post about skill and how it affects these weapons, then come back and read your post because it seems you’ve completely missed the points I’ve been trying to make.

Let me further back this up through a statement of yours.

“It is not an individual gaming field like pubs. In a clan game, especially in a competition or cup, you cannot think of your personal preference or go on a killing spree. Then you must go pub.”

Ok, then what about teams who encourage their players to use those weapons as it possibly forms an intricate part of their playstyle? Should the entire team be playing Pubs instead of Comp?

, saying these weapons suck and are useless and should not be used should they not be banned is a personal opinion (no doubt shared among thousands of players in the world) and only that. I’ve seen an amazing video quite some time ago of a Scout who picked off an entire team with the FaN with almost god-like flanking and timing (probably due to excellent communication from his teammates). These weapons, much like every weapon ingame, are as useless as the players skill with them and nothing more.

PS: I’d never use a FaN in tournament play because I suck hard with it yet I will still defend anyone who chooses to use it as it certainly does not fall under the category of OPness like the Dead Ringer, Wrangler and Sandman, if at all.

32
0
Tell us what you think, please comment.x
()
x